My blog post, Drug
Price Control 32: Policeman of Pharma Companies, about my reply to a demand
for another round of price control by the head of the Cancer Warriors
Foundation (CWF) here in Manila, was posted yesterday in the facebook group, Imperium et Populi
(Philippines), to be countered and debated by the fb group owner, Kensi Blye-Two.
Until last week, this person – don’t know if a he or she,
I think a she – took an anti-statist interventionism (trying hard free
marketer?) position. In my previous long debate with her (or him), Business
Bureaucracy 8: Exchanges at Imperium et Populi (Philippines), she wrote,
This would BOIL DOWN again to "EASE of DOING BUSINESS..." The SMALL PEOPLE are HEAVILY TAXED but the BIG COMPANIES can get away with almost anything...
Imagine this:
( 1 ) Corporate Tax 30%
( 2 ) VAT 12%
( 3 ) Withholding Tax
( 4 ) Business Permit from the LGU
( 5 ) BOC - Duties and Taxes for Imported Goods
( 6 ) Other Taxes from other Agencies...
What's left of the MICRO and SMALL Enterprises...?
That’s an anti-statist, anti-bureaucratism position,
right? Cool.
Then in attacking my paper on drug price control, she
wrote,
If you have read RA 9502 which I'm sure you have... There's a certain provision that says:
SEC. 17. Drugs and Medicines Price Regulation Authority of the President of the Philippines….
These said PROVISIONS have already given the LEGAL FRAMEWORK to NO LESS than the President the POWER to IMPOST MRP to ANY and ALL "DRUGS" and "MEDICINES..." This itself would mean one thing- DRUG PRICE CONTROL...
Now she is pro-state intervention, justifying government
price control and politicized price-setting.
That’s a 180 degrees turn around. Mental inconsistency,
intellectual dishonesty, plain brickbats to have a revenge, any of these can
possibly explain the behavior.
I checked the fb profile of this person…
A cat! I was debating with a half human, half feline
entity J
Kidding aside, this person has no real name, no photo, no affiliation, no school, nothing. This is a
perfect formula for people who appear “brave” and utter almost anything, but are cowards that their words and ideas will be associated with their faces and names.
Anyway, below are Kensi’s rapid-fire-revenge attempts, my
brief rejoinder to her comments and questions, then another round of insecure brickbats.
Copy-pasting
everything so readers can see the kind of mentality this cat or person has. Seven
pages long, almost 3,000 words including this intro, get your fave drinks and enjoy
the ride.
------------
Kensi
Blye-Two "That
"MDRP" by the way is an illegal term coined by former DOH Secretary
Francisco Duque and Malacanang under former President Gloria Arroyo. The
original provision in RA 9502 is MRP but Malacanang did not like it to mean
"Mar Roxas for President" then so they invented MDRP."
(Noynoy Oplas)
http://funwithgovernment.blogspot.com/2013/06/drug-price-control-32-policeman-of.html
( 1 ) Has the term "MDRP" been DECLARED "ILLEGAL" by any competent Court...? Has EO 821 (Executive 821) been REVOKED...? Has AO 2011-0012 (Administrative Order 2011-0012) been AMENDED or REVOKED...?
( 2 ) And where did you get this RUMOR or GOSSIP that the ONLY REASON the MRP was changed into MDRP by the former Administration was mainly due to the fact that it could be used by Mar Roxas (which eventually RAN for Vice President)...? Can you show some PROOF or EVIDENCE to support your claim...?
( 1 ) Has the term "MDRP" been DECLARED "ILLEGAL" by any competent Court...? Has EO 821 (Executive 821) been REVOKED...? Has AO 2011-0012 (Administrative Order 2011-0012) been AMENDED or REVOKED...?
( 2 ) And where did you get this RUMOR or GOSSIP that the ONLY REASON the MRP was changed into MDRP by the former Administration was mainly due to the fact that it could be used by Mar Roxas (which eventually RAN for Vice President)...? Can you show some PROOF or EVIDENCE to support your claim...?
"Besides, it is preposterous for someone to claim
that he or she can speak "in behalf of the millions of Filipinos who are
sick and dying". Have the sick and dying organized themselves into a
national organization and they elected a leader to speak in behalf of them?
There is no such thing or organization or leader."
( 1 ) Did you CLARIFY whether he wanted all the DETAILS and INFO for ALL MEDICINES or perhaps for certain Medicines that their GROUP are eyeing...?
( 2 ) I think that you KNOW or UNDERSTAND the REALITIES that beset a lot of Filipinos when it comes to ACCESSIBILITY to MEDICINES... Are you "DENYING" that FACT that a lot of Filipinos who are SICK and DYING just because they can't buy MEDICINE...? Do clarify...
( 3 ) Whether the INTENTIONS or Mr. Auste is GOOD or BAD, he has introduced REALITIES that needs to be ADDRESSED immediately and these are LEGITIMATE ISSUES... Now, would you HELP the Filipino SICK and DYING or you would stick to your "brand of bureaucratic maneuverings...?"
( 1 ) Did you CLARIFY whether he wanted all the DETAILS and INFO for ALL MEDICINES or perhaps for certain Medicines that their GROUP are eyeing...?
( 2 ) I think that you KNOW or UNDERSTAND the REALITIES that beset a lot of Filipinos when it comes to ACCESSIBILITY to MEDICINES... Are you "DENYING" that FACT that a lot of Filipinos who are SICK and DYING just because they can't buy MEDICINE...? Do clarify...
( 3 ) Whether the INTENTIONS or Mr. Auste is GOOD or BAD, he has introduced REALITIES that needs to be ADDRESSED immediately and these are LEGITIMATE ISSUES... Now, would you HELP the Filipino SICK and DYING or you would stick to your "brand of bureaucratic maneuverings...?"
"So many AC meetings in the past have been held
where the subject was discussed, where people from the national and generic
pharma companies, the Philippine Chamber of Pharmaceutical Industry or PCPI ,
Philippine Pharmacists Association, Watsons, Pharmaceutical and Healthcare
Association of the Philippines, and other groups have spoken with only one
message -- drug price control policy is wrong."
( 1 ) Oh really...? You met with Pharma Companies, Pharmacists, Drugstore Executives, Healthcare Groups... How about CONSUMER GROUPS whose advocacy is on "Consumer Welfare...?" Have you also tried to TALK with them...?
( 2 ) If you have read RA 9502 which I'm sure you have... There's a certain provision that says:
( 1 ) Oh really...? You met with Pharma Companies, Pharmacists, Drugstore Executives, Healthcare Groups... How about CONSUMER GROUPS whose advocacy is on "Consumer Welfare...?" Have you also tried to TALK with them...?
( 2 ) If you have read RA 9502 which I'm sure you have... There's a certain provision that says:
SEC. 17. Drugs and Medicines Price Regulation Authority
of the President of the Philippines….
These said PROVISIONS have already given the LEGAL
FRAMEWORK to NO LESS than the President the POWER to IMPOST MRP to ANY and ALL
"DRUGS" and "MEDICINES..." This itself would mean one
thing- DRUG PRICE CONTROL...
"That medicine prices were coming down even before
the policy was imposed because of the rising competition among more players
with more products introduced. "
( 1 ) The ISSUE that needs to be CONSIDERED is NOT ONLY whether Prices of Drugs are going DOWN... One of the MAIN ISSUES that needs to be CONSIDERED is that: "Why the Philippines has ONE of the MOST EXPENSIVE DRUG PRICING" in Asia...? Since you're part of the Advisory Council, perhaps you can enlighten us...
( 2 ) Since you're part of the INNER CIRCLE on this ISSUE... Can you then give us a ROUGH ESTIMATE on "MARK-UPS" by Drug companies on different MEDICINES...? I've talked to an Indian Executive and he told me this: "Why are Medicines here in the Philippines are so EXPENSIVE...? In India, you can buy practically almost all types of Medicines at 1/4 the COST of the PRICING in the Philippine Market..." Care to comment...?
( 1 ) The ISSUE that needs to be CONSIDERED is NOT ONLY whether Prices of Drugs are going DOWN... One of the MAIN ISSUES that needs to be CONSIDERED is that: "Why the Philippines has ONE of the MOST EXPENSIVE DRUG PRICING" in Asia...? Since you're part of the Advisory Council, perhaps you can enlighten us...
( 2 ) Since you're part of the INNER CIRCLE on this ISSUE... Can you then give us a ROUGH ESTIMATE on "MARK-UPS" by Drug companies on different MEDICINES...? I've talked to an Indian Executive and he told me this: "Why are Medicines here in the Philippines are so EXPENSIVE...? In India, you can buy practically almost all types of Medicines at 1/4 the COST of the PRICING in the Philippine Market..." Care to comment...?
I would also like to SHARE some thoughts fromFer Macarayo...
Example: A certain ANTI-HYPERTENSIVE DRUG- same MANUFACTURER; same BRAND; same STOCK DOSAGE and PREPARATION...
PHILIPPINE PRICE: Php 28.00/TAB (USD 0.67/tab)
THAILAND PRICE: Thb 4.00/TAB (USD 0.10/tab)
700% Mark-Up...? Really...?
I know something about SCM (Supply Chain Management) and Logistics... And you don't need much Distribution and other Administrative Expenses...
Example: A certain ANTI-HYPERTENSIVE DRUG- same MANUFACTURER; same BRAND; same STOCK DOSAGE and PREPARATION...
PHILIPPINE PRICE: Php 28.00/TAB (USD 0.67/tab)
THAILAND PRICE: Thb 4.00/TAB (USD 0.10/tab)
700% Mark-Up...? Really...?
I know something about SCM (Supply Chain Management) and Logistics... And you don't need much Distribution and other Administrative Expenses...
------------
( 1 ) Has the term "MDRP" been DECLARED
"ILLEGAL" by any competent Court...? Has EO 821 (Executive 821) been
REVOKED...? Has AO 2011-0012 (Administrative Order 2011-0012) been AMENDED or
REVOKED...?
( 2 ) And where did you get this RUMOR or GOSSIP that the ONLY REASON the MRP was changed into MDRP by the former Administration was mainly due to the fact that it could be used by Mar Roxas (which eventually RAN for Vice President)...? Can you show some PROOF or EVIDENCE to support your claim...?
à
Not rumor. It was officially discussed at the DOH Advisory Council. See here,
“MRP, GMA, DOH-K, NGO”,
“MRP, GMA, DOH-K, NGO”,
3. Did you CLARIFY
whether he wanted all the DETAILS and INFO for ALL MEDICINES or perhaps for
certain Medicines that their GROUP are eyeing...?
à
Yes, That blog post was lifted from my direct email to him, cc’d all members of
the Council. James did not reply until now.
4. Are you
"DENYING" that FACT that a lot of Filipinos who are SICK and DYING
just because they can't buy MEDICINE...? Do clarify...
à
No.
5. would you HELP
the Filipino SICK and DYING or you would stick to your "brand of
bureaucratic maneuverings...?"
à
I help in public policy discussions. I am no bureaucrat, nor am I a health
socialist.
6. You met with Pharma Companies, Pharmacists, Drugstore
Executives, Healthcare Groups... How about CONSUMER GROUPS whose advocacy is on
"Consumer Welfare...?" Have you also tried to TALK with them...?
à
Yes, ALL sectors and groups – government, multilateral, private, NGOs -- meet
each other at the Advisory Council. We all talk to each other.
7. These said
PROVISIONS have already given the LEGAL FRAMEWORK to NO LESS than the President
the POWER to IMPOST MRP to ANY and ALL "DRUGS" and
"MEDICINES..." This itself would mean one thing- DRUG PRICE CONTROL...
à
Yes, drug price control is in the law, but see the again the criteria before
that policy can be declared, check Sec. 7 of the law vs DOH criteria,
8. One of the MAIN ISSUES that needs to be CONSIDERED is
that: "Why the Philippines has ONE of the MOST EXPENSIVE DRUG
PRICING" in Asia...?
9. Can you then give us a ROUGH ESTIMATE on
"MARK-UPS" by Drug companies on different MEDICINES...? I've talked
to an Indian Executive and he told me this: "Why are Medicines here in the
Philippines are so EXPENSIVE...?
à
No, I don’t have the data. Socialists who oppose capitalist competition should
produce that data to strengthen their argument that such competition does not really work.
10. Example: A certain ANTI-HYPERTENSIVE DRUG- same
MANUFACTURER; same BRAND; same STOCK DOSAGE and PREPARATION...
PHILIPPINE PRICE: Php 28.00/TAB (USD 0.67/tab)
THAILAND PRICE: Thb 4.00/TAB (USD 0.10/tab)
PHILIPPINE PRICE: Php 28.00/TAB (USD 0.67/tab)
THAILAND PRICE: Thb 4.00/TAB (USD 0.10/tab)
à
(a) Name the name of molecule and brand, there are dozens of molecules on
anti-hypertension alone. (b) Name the manufacturers, (c) when the data
comparison was made, (d)what drug outlets the drugs were respectively bought, (e)
the exchange rate used for the price comparison
Produce these and related data before data can be
meaningful ly verified and compared.
Will blog this exchange tomorrow, when I get online
again.
-----------
Kensi
Blye-Two
"--> MDRP and GMAP are nowhere to be found in RA 9502, nor in its IRR. See, “Illegalities in the Implementation of the Policy” (drug price control),
http://funwithgovernment.blogspot.com/2011/11/drug-price-control-21-illegalities-in.html"
( 1 ) I'm NOT ASKING whether it is FOUND on RA 9502 or NOT... What I'm asking is what is your BASIS for the claim that it is ILLEGAL without any JUDICIAL DETERMINATION...?
( 2 ) On AO 2011-0012 (Administrative Order 2011-0012), said MDRP term was MENTIONED... Not unless an EO or AO is REVOKED or ABOLISHED, it is POLICY... Not even all your friends from the Pharma Sector saying it's ILLEGAL makes it ILLEGAL not unless it is "DECLARED ILLEGAL" by the Courts...
( 3 ) Yeah sure, why didn't interested groups SUE...? I wonder... This would have DETERMINED whether said TERMS and PROVISIONS are indeed ILLEGAL or LEGAL...
"--> MDRP and GMAP are nowhere to be found in RA 9502, nor in its IRR. See, “Illegalities in the Implementation of the Policy” (drug price control),
http://funwithgovernment.blogspot.com/2011/11/drug-price-control-21-illegalities-in.html"
( 1 ) I'm NOT ASKING whether it is FOUND on RA 9502 or NOT... What I'm asking is what is your BASIS for the claim that it is ILLEGAL without any JUDICIAL DETERMINATION...?
( 2 ) On AO 2011-0012 (Administrative Order 2011-0012), said MDRP term was MENTIONED... Not unless an EO or AO is REVOKED or ABOLISHED, it is POLICY... Not even all your friends from the Pharma Sector saying it's ILLEGAL makes it ILLEGAL not unless it is "DECLARED ILLEGAL" by the Courts...
( 3 ) Yeah sure, why didn't interested groups SUE...? I wonder... This would have DETERMINED whether said TERMS and PROVISIONS are indeed ILLEGAL or LEGAL...
"--> Not rumor. It was officially discussed at
the DOH Advisory Council. See here,
“MRP, GMA, DOH-K, NGO”, "
The mere DISCUSSION of such ABBREVIATIONS does not make it REAL and NOT BASED on RUMORS and GOSSIPS... Not unless you can show PROOF or EVIDENCE aside from WHISPERS, the meaning of these terms and their "interchangeable meanings" are all DEEMED "HEARSAY..."
“MRP, GMA, DOH-K, NGO”, "
The mere DISCUSSION of such ABBREVIATIONS does not make it REAL and NOT BASED on RUMORS and GOSSIPS... Not unless you can show PROOF or EVIDENCE aside from WHISPERS, the meaning of these terms and their "interchangeable meanings" are all DEEMED "HEARSAY..."
"--> Yes, That blog post was lifted from my
direct email to him, cc’d all members of the Council. James did not reply until
now."
( 1 ) Meaning, you made a ASSUMPTIONS and a PRESUMPTIONS without the REPLY of the PERSON in QUESTION... Isn't that a one-sided statement...?
( 1 ) Meaning, you made a ASSUMPTIONS and a PRESUMPTIONS without the REPLY of the PERSON in QUESTION... Isn't that a one-sided statement...?
"--> No."
You're NOT DENYING the FACT and yet you are actually trying to give PROHIBITIVE CONDITIONS on Mr. Auste just so the WELFARE of the GENERAL PUBLIC would be HEARD on your so-called Advisory Council...? Who are you working for, btw...? For INTEREST-GROUPS rather than the Filipino people...?
You're NOT DENYING the FACT and yet you are actually trying to give PROHIBITIVE CONDITIONS on Mr. Auste just so the WELFARE of the GENERAL PUBLIC would be HEARD on your so-called Advisory Council...? Who are you working for, btw...? For INTEREST-GROUPS rather than the Filipino people...?
"--> I help in public policy discussions. I am no
bureaucrat, nor am I a health socialist."
By the looks of it, you're LOOKING AFTER the INTEREST of the Pharmaceutical Companies; Drugstore Companies; and other Healthcare Groups rather than actually CONTRIBUTING to POLICY that would BENEFIT the GREATER NUMBER of Filipinos...
Ah yes, when THINK TANKS are HIRED by certain Groups, you give them RESEARCH that's SWEET to their EARS, right...?
By the looks of it, you're LOOKING AFTER the INTEREST of the Pharmaceutical Companies; Drugstore Companies; and other Healthcare Groups rather than actually CONTRIBUTING to POLICY that would BENEFIT the GREATER NUMBER of Filipinos...
Ah yes, when THINK TANKS are HIRED by certain Groups, you give them RESEARCH that's SWEET to their EARS, right...?
"--> Yes, ALL sectors and groups – government, multilateral, private, NGOs -- meet each other at the Advisory Council. We all talk to each other."
What Consumer Welfare Groups or NGO's you've talked to regarding this matter..? I mean, you're quite familiar with all the Pharma, Drugstore and other Healthcare Professionals but you LEFT OUT what's most important in any POLICY PLANNING- the WELFARE of the General Public and their Representatives...
"--> Yes, drug price control is in the law, but see the again the criteria before that policy can be declared, check Sec. 7 of the law vs DOH criteria, "
( 1 ) The LAW is VERY CLEAR... Of course there are CRITERIA but it does not DIMINISH that FACT that "PRICE CONTROL" contained within RA 9502 is a MATTER of POLICY... Not unless said law is DECLARED UNCONSTITUTIONAL or ILLEGAL, it remains to be in FULL FORCE of the LAW..
( 2 ) What are your BASIS for all these ILLEGALITIES aside from CONJECTURES in the ABSENCE of any JUDICIAL DETERMINATION...?
"--> Show the numbers. Tables and charts, preferably as of end-2011 or end-2012, not just rumors or undated data. Then compare your data with these charts and numbers, “Three years of drug price control policy”,"
( 1 ) Even your CHART says it all... The PHILIPPINES has one of the MOST EXPENSIVE MEDICINES PRICING in Asia... I did not say "THE MOST EXPENSIVE..." I said: "One of the most expensive if you cared to read..
( 2 ) I did not need to PRESENT my own DATA and CHARTS, your own CHARTS have said it all...
"--> No, I don’t have the data. Socialists who oppose capitalist
competition should produce that data to strengthen their argument that such
competition does not really work."
You don't have the DATA and yet you're CLAIMING that MEDICINES are CHEAP in the Philippines when it's NOT... Mind you, I am in BUSINESS... And by any standards a 700% MARK-UP on Medicine at the EXPENSE of the Health of the Filipino is PROFITEERING... Not unless you DIS-AGREE because you have FRIENDS from the Pharma and Drugstore sectors...?
You don't have the DATA and yet you're CLAIMING that MEDICINES are CHEAP in the Philippines when it's NOT... Mind you, I am in BUSINESS... And by any standards a 700% MARK-UP on Medicine at the EXPENSE of the Health of the Filipino is PROFITEERING... Not unless you DIS-AGREE because you have FRIENDS from the Pharma and Drugstore sectors...?
"--> (a) Name the name of molecule and brand, there are dozens of molecules on anti-hypertension alone. (b) Name the manufacturers, (c) when the data comparison was made, (d)what drug outlets the drugs were respectively bought, (e) the exchange rate used for the price comparison"
Again, if you've read my comment, this was a contribution made by Fer Macarayo. I will ask him for MORE DETAILS and reply accordingly regarding this matter...
----------
Well, I don’t think these comments deserve a point by point
rebuttal. I prefer to debate if the
other camp has good, verifiable data to show, but there is zero.
Ok, the cat-human made this personal attack, she wrote
above, “Ah yes, when THINK TANKS are HIRED by certain Groups, you give them
RESEARCH that's SWEET to their EARS, right...?”
Who hired Minimal Government Thinkers? Drugstores like
Merciry, Watsons, Rose, Generika, The Generics, Mansons, etc.? I wish that was true, MGT
should have plenty of money and having its own office now and not holed up
in one table in an office at zero rent, only
“thank you” note to my sister’s office. Who else, the pharma companies like
Unilab, Pfizer, Pharex, GSK, Pascual Lab, MSD, etc.? And hospitals like Makati Med, St. Lukes, Asian Hospital, etc.? I wish that was true too, then
I can hire even one or two full time staff.
This kind of thinking by the cat simply says that if your analysis goes along with those corporate players, then you got no mind of your own, you only get hired by them then parrot their ideas. This is an idiotic assumption of course. But granting for the sake of argument that such generalization is somehow true, then we can also speculate that socialists who advocate drug price control and more government intervention are paid off by the Communist Party of the Philippines out of extortion money, aka revolutionary taxes, to advance the socialist, statist, and anti-market competition policy agenda.
This kind of thinking by the cat simply says that if your analysis goes along with those corporate players, then you got no mind of your own, you only get hired by them then parrot their ideas. This is an idiotic assumption of course. But granting for the sake of argument that such generalization is somehow true, then we can also speculate that socialists who advocate drug price control and more government intervention are paid off by the Communist Party of the Philippines out of extortion money, aka revolutionary taxes, to advance the socialist, statist, and anti-market competition policy agenda.
Let's just put it this way. An nsecure mind – of a cat or a person – can make any illusion and draw stories and conclusions out of that illusion.
Hmmm, who could be debating me again next time, a dog? A lion?
Or another cat?
Fine with me. Come on in.
Cheers.
------------See also:
Fat-Free Econ 22: Three Years of Drug Price Control Policy, August 30, 2012
Drug Price Control 30: Reversing the Policy on AC Resolution in 2009, September 14, 2012
Drug Price Control 31: Cancer Drugs and CWF, December 01, 2012
Drug Price Control 32: Policeman of Pharma Companies, June 04, 2013
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