Last Monday, July 08, I posted Pol.
Ideology 45: Left Intellectualism Means Abandonment of Socialism in my
facebook wall. It attracted another round of long discourse. Thanks to fellow
UP ETCer (younger batch) Mel, Mike, Shakaru, for that long exchange from July
08-10, 2013.
While the debate still focuses on whether we should have
a BIG or small/limited government, one source of confusion is a
misunderstanding of some quotes from Adam
Smith’s book, The Wealth of Nations.
This is 12 pages long, 6,100+ words, so grab a can of
your favorite drinks and enjoy.
Mel
Lorenzo Accad Interesting sir! I'm reading it
cc: Sir Gerry, May I
know your comment on this?
Sir Nonoy, how sure are you that you have defined socialism
accurately? as pointed out by sir Gerry in one of my previous posts. What are
your sources po para naman maiwasan natin ang strawman arguments.
Nonoy
Oplas It's there. "Things should be socialized always --
education, healthcare, housing, pension, transpo, agri, etc. Including your own
pockets, savings, they should be socialized. Diversity and inequality,
spontaneity and innovation, should be restricted if not controlled whenever
possible. Things should be harmonized, standardized, uniformized, monotonized,
in order to prevent inequality, massive and scary inequality."
Mel
Lorenzo Accad Sir Nonoy, here are
my comments (I also posted them in the main blog):
"Let me be clear with my assumptions:
1. Every political rule is a "dictatorship" in one way or another.
-Example, democracy is dictatorship of the majority over the minority, capitalism is dictatorship of those who are economically-abled over those who are not economically-abled, socialism is the dictatorship of the "people" over all (I really hope that I defined them very well so as to avoid strawman arguments. I hate strawman arguments, BTW)
2. So if we say that socialism is machine that creates dictatorship, what then can we call capitalism?
3. I believe that capitalism and socialism have advantages and disadvantages (we should only be aware of their SIDE EFFECTS and how do we minimize them).
4. Capitalism has created so wide inequality to the extent that everyone has differing in their competitiveness, hence there's a long run possibility of rise of monopolies (even those that are not natural monopoly due to technological advantages).
5. Final question, what then are these side effects of every political rules that we should be aware of? How should we minimize them? WHAT IS OUR COMMON GOAL AT THE END OF THE DAY?
6. I don't have the monopoly of truth. There are grave consequences of assuming that we have monopoly of truth.
(COOL HEADS, WARM HEARTS)"
"Let me be clear with my assumptions:
1. Every political rule is a "dictatorship" in one way or another.
-Example, democracy is dictatorship of the majority over the minority, capitalism is dictatorship of those who are economically-abled over those who are not economically-abled, socialism is the dictatorship of the "people" over all (I really hope that I defined them very well so as to avoid strawman arguments. I hate strawman arguments, BTW)
2. So if we say that socialism is machine that creates dictatorship, what then can we call capitalism?
3. I believe that capitalism and socialism have advantages and disadvantages (we should only be aware of their SIDE EFFECTS and how do we minimize them).
4. Capitalism has created so wide inequality to the extent that everyone has differing in their competitiveness, hence there's a long run possibility of rise of monopolies (even those that are not natural monopoly due to technological advantages).
5. Final question, what then are these side effects of every political rules that we should be aware of? How should we minimize them? WHAT IS OUR COMMON GOAL AT THE END OF THE DAY?
6. I don't have the monopoly of truth. There are grave consequences of assuming that we have monopoly of truth.
(COOL HEADS, WARM HEARTS)"
Nonoy
Oplas Thanks Mel. First of all, I think you should start blogging.
Just copy-paste those that you already posted in fb, they are long blog
articles already.
To your points:
1. Yes, All forms of pol rule is dictatorship and coercion. The free market philosophy, the minarchy libertarin especially does not rule out lhaving coercion in our lives, hence the advocacy for "limited government" vs the "zero government" position of libertarian anarchy.
2. Free market capitalism is based on voluntary exchange. I sell you tomatoes at this price. If you like them, you pay and go home. If you don't like them, you just walk away and find another seller. Then I go to another buyer and offer my tomatoes. Zero coercion in a voluntary exchange set up.
3. Yes they do. It depends on what you wish to achieve. If you want to respect diversity and spontaneity, free market capitalism is the way because under capitalism, diversity is not allowed. YOu cannot be very efficient then be very rich, the state will confiscate your extra income, your extra cash, your extra car, extra land.
4. Free people are not equal, and equal people are not free. There is no limit to what the super-efficient, super-hard working, super-ambitious people can achieve. Meanwhile, some people have zero ambition, just have a party as often as possible, get subsidies from siblings or from the state. As time passes by, the inequality between these two extremes widen. Some in the middle class join the super rich later. Inequality is necessary if you want a free society.
5. Common goal at the end of the day is -- individual liberty. Individual responsibility. One's stupidity and irresponsibility should not be blamed to anyone else. One's efficiency and fruits of hard work should not be confiscated to be given to everyone else.
6. The only absolute truth in this life are change, death and government/taxes.
To your points:
1. Yes, All forms of pol rule is dictatorship and coercion. The free market philosophy, the minarchy libertarin especially does not rule out lhaving coercion in our lives, hence the advocacy for "limited government" vs the "zero government" position of libertarian anarchy.
2. Free market capitalism is based on voluntary exchange. I sell you tomatoes at this price. If you like them, you pay and go home. If you don't like them, you just walk away and find another seller. Then I go to another buyer and offer my tomatoes. Zero coercion in a voluntary exchange set up.
3. Yes they do. It depends on what you wish to achieve. If you want to respect diversity and spontaneity, free market capitalism is the way because under capitalism, diversity is not allowed. YOu cannot be very efficient then be very rich, the state will confiscate your extra income, your extra cash, your extra car, extra land.
4. Free people are not equal, and equal people are not free. There is no limit to what the super-efficient, super-hard working, super-ambitious people can achieve. Meanwhile, some people have zero ambition, just have a party as often as possible, get subsidies from siblings or from the state. As time passes by, the inequality between these two extremes widen. Some in the middle class join the super rich later. Inequality is necessary if you want a free society.
5. Common goal at the end of the day is -- individual liberty. Individual responsibility. One's stupidity and irresponsibility should not be blamed to anyone else. One's efficiency and fruits of hard work should not be confiscated to be given to everyone else.
6. The only absolute truth in this life are change, death and government/taxes.








