Have you argued with fanatics, people who will use harsh words and tactics and will never change their position even if confronted with facts that do not conform with their ideals?
Below is another example of arguing with fanatics. Some, if not many of their words and arguments are generally tinged with high anger and intolerance. You do not agree with their arguments, they throw undesirable adjectives and words against you.
Last Wednesday, September 12, I posted below in the
Cadizmycitymyhome facebook group. This is about the coal terminal and coal power plant project that is said to have been approved by the Cadiz City government already, in the province of Negros Occidental. I came from that city, I was born there, took my elementary and high school education there.
Observe the kind of language that the "No to coal no matter what" argument and proponents use. Again, this is a long exchange, from
September 12 to 14. Then an update today, further below. This is 23+ pages long, get your snacks and enjoy the fireworks :-)
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Nonoy Oplas
I understand the majority sentiment against coal, fine. For me, I am pro-nuke, pro-geothermal, pro-coal, pro-natural gas, pro-shale gas. I am also pro-solar/wind, so long as no taxpayers' subsidies will be given to these renewables that will make our electricity rates become even more expensive.
But it is another thing to demand a "shut down all coal power plants in the country". As of 2010, 34.4 percent of the whole country was dependent on coal power and dependence from wind, solar and biomass combined was only 0.1 percent,
http://www.interaksyon.com/business/37648/fat-free-economics-coal-climate-and-government. Thank you.
FAT-FREE ECONOMICS: Coal, climate and government - InterAksyon.com
Tiny Bee Are you also pro-life, pro-health and pro-environment? With due respect......
No doubt, COAL is CHEAP and so is life maybe :)
Nonoy Oplas I am pro-life, pro-health, pro-environment, pro-trees, pro-dolphins and other bleeding heart concerns. But the main issue is transparency of the city govt or not. If they were not transparent, the project proponent did not follow the EIA and other requirements, then that coal project should not proceed, it should be stopped. If they follow the requirements, the project should proceed.
The same process should apply, that all power project proposals -- geothermal, nuke, natural gas, hydro, oil-based, wind/solar -- should comply with the EIA requirements.
Nonoy Oplas Please note that I will blog and publicize all succeeding comments in this thread. Both civil comments and personal attacks I will publish, no exception, no alteration. If we want transparency from the government, national and local, we should also practice transparency in our ideas, do not be afraid to stand for your ideas. My previous blog post about the debate in this group about the subject is here, about 15 pages long,
http://funwithgovernment.blogspot.com/2012/09/energy-econ-5-coal-power-in-cadiz.html
Government and Taxes: Energy Econ 5: Coal Power in Cadiz, Negros Occidental
Tiny Bee Transparent indi pareho sang plastic! :)
Jeanette Bendijo Gamboa I just opened the link you have posted Nonoy Oplas, I think it is a good move nga gin collate mo tanan nga comments. even though we have different thoughts on this, at least you are presenting both side here.
Manong Nonoy Oplas and Toto batchmate Mai Escalante, are your engineers? I am, Tiny Bee, Jonas Delina, Sir Lar Collins Benitez and a lot of Cadiznons are. But it does not take to be an engineer to figure out your arguments. Absolutely, brownout gid ang gwa sang mga lugar sa Pilipinas kag sa Amerika kung i-shut down ang mga coal power plants, kay dira na nakawire ang mga power supplies nga gahatag energy sa pumuluyo mo! Subong nga kadamo damo na sang CFPP sa bilog nga kalibutan, nakita ta na ang effect sa environment kag sa health sang mga tawo. Pero indi dayon mashutdown kay dira mo na ginpasalig ang imo power! Amo gani ang isyu ta di indi PAG ITUKOD ANG COAL POWER PLANT SA CADIZ, para indi ta mag intra sa campaign nga IPA SHUT DOWN . Kay wala pa natukod TAPNA ON na! We are struggling for power shortage, that could be partly true, but surely we are not dying if have shortage. We will be dying if we got the plant on site.
Jeanette Bendijo Gamboa It is our government's responsibility to find ways for alternative energy, but absolutely not Coal. Isakto c Tiny Bee, when you bring Coal to Cadiz, it means you are not doing your work! Kay wala ka gali nangita lain nga energy sources? Kung wala investor, kundi ma stick ka sa fossil fuel kag mangita pa gid sang lain nga alternatives asta makakita ka investors!
amo lang ni ang analogy sina hu, kay ang imo ginhatag idea Mai Escalante kay tungod amo lang na ang investor nga makahatag sa aton alternative energy sa subong batunon ta na lang bisan lain sa lawas kag sa palibot basta mag tin ad kuno ang aton siudad,. Teh, pareho lang na sa gira, kung hatagan ka "PAN OS NGA TAE", kaunon mo na lang bisan pa kabalo ka nga mahilo ka, kay amo lang na ang available, kag shortage na sang pagkaon. indi ka na lang manguykoy sa duta basi may kamote ka nga makita, o basi pede ka pa manakot apan basi mas makaon pa kaysa sa "PAN OS NGA TAE" ! Ang mas malala pa, maayo lang kung ang nagpili sang "PAN OS NGA TAE" ANG MAKAON, INDI MAN. ANG MGA MGA TAWO SA PALIBOT YA nga wala na inform nga may choice gali sila!!!!! O basi ang nagpili sang "PAN OS NGA TAE " Para sa pumuluyo may ara FIVE STAR QUALITY NGA GINAKAON????? ABI BINAG BINAGA!!!!!!!!
Manong Nonoy Oplas, i have posted my comments, here, please please include it on your blog, para may ara gid thread nga dali lang makit an kag ma track.
Nonoy Oplas Yes, thanks. I can write my own ideas on any post as I own the blog, but I want my readers to see the other side, that is why I copy-paste exchanges there.
If people will say that "it is government responsibility to find ways for alternative energy", then if your government is lazy or corrupt, you're read, you will have no new power sources, back to frequent brownouts. Finding energy is everyone's concern. Some guys put up solar power in their roof and they become independent of the national or provincial grid, it's cool. So for those who oppose coal or oil-based power plants, it is their responsibility to bring in those they like, which is the renewables. No problem with me or other guys as I think their primary concern is to have new power sources as the number of people, houses, schools, shops, buildings, etc. is rising, not declining or flat-lining.
In reality, to wish for the renewables to provide sufficient power sources for the country, or for Negros and Cadiz in particular, is wishful thinking. These power sources have been there since the 90s, or the past decade, but the most that they can provide is 0.1 percent, or 1/10 or 1 percent, of the total power needs of the country.