Monday, September 17, 2012

Energy Econ 6: Intolerance in Anti-Coal Hysteria, Cadiz Coal Project

Have you argued with fanatics, people who will use harsh words and tactics and will never change their position even if confronted with facts that do not conform with their ideals?

Below is another example of arguing with fanatics. Some, if not many of their words and arguments are generally tinged with high anger and intolerance. You do not agree with their arguments, they throw undesirable adjectives and words against you.

Last Wednesday, September 12, I posted below in the Cadizmycitymyhome facebook group. This is about the coal terminal and coal power plant project that is said to have been approved by the Cadiz City government already, in the province of Negros Occidental. I came from that city, I was born there, took my elementary and high school education there.

Observe the kind of language that the "No to coal no matter what" argument and proponents use. Again, this is a long exchange, from September 12 to 14. Then an update today, further below. This is 23+ pages long, get your snacks and enjoy the fireworks :-)
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Nonoy Oplas
I understand the majority sentiment against coal, fine. For me, I am pro-nuke, pro-geothermal, pro-coal, pro-natural gas, pro-shale gas. I am also pro-solar/wind, so long as no taxpayers' subsidies will be given to these renewables that will make our electricity rates become even more expensive.

But it is another thing to demand a "shut down all coal power plants in the country". As of 2010, 34.4 percent of the whole country was dependent on coal power and dependence from wind, solar and biomass combined was only 0.1 percent,
http://www.interaksyon.com/business/37648/fat-free-economics-coal-climate-and-government. Thank you.
FAT-FREE ECONOMICS: Coal, climate and government - InterAksyon.com

Tiny Bee Are you also pro-life, pro-health and pro-environment? With due respect......

No doubt, COAL is CHEAP and so is life maybe :)

Nonoy Oplas I am pro-life, pro-health, pro-environment, pro-trees, pro-dolphins and other bleeding heart concerns. But the main issue is transparency of the city govt or not. If they were not transparent, the project proponent did not follow the EIA and other requirements, then that coal project should not proceed, it should be stopped. If they follow the requirements, the project should proceed.

The same process should apply, that all power project proposals -- geothermal, nuke, natural gas, hydro, oil-based, wind/solar -- should comply with the EIA requirements.

Nonoy Oplas Please note that I will blog and publicize all succeeding comments in this thread. Both civil comments and personal attacks I will publish, no exception, no alteration. If we want transparency from the government, national and local, we should also practice transparency in our ideas, do not be afraid to stand for your ideas. My previous blog post about the debate in this group about the subject is here, about 15 pages long, http://funwithgovernment.blogspot.com/2012/09/energy-econ-5-coal-power-in-cadiz.html
Government and Taxes: Energy Econ 5: Coal Power in Cadiz, Negros Occidental

Tiny Bee Transparent indi pareho sang plastic! :)

Jeanette Bendijo Gamboa I just opened the link you have posted Nonoy Oplas, I think it is a good move nga gin collate mo tanan nga comments. even though we have different thoughts on this, at least you are presenting both side here.

Manong Nonoy Oplas and Toto batchmate Mai Escalante, are your engineers? I am, Tiny Bee, Jonas Delina, Sir Lar Collins Benitez and a lot of Cadiznons are. But it does not take to be an engineer to figure out your arguments. Absolutely, brownout gid ang gwa sang mga lugar sa Pilipinas kag sa Amerika kung i-shut down ang mga coal power plants, kay dira na nakawire ang mga power supplies nga gahatag energy sa pumuluyo mo! Subong nga kadamo damo na sang CFPP sa bilog nga kalibutan, nakita ta na ang effect sa environment kag sa health sang mga tawo. Pero indi dayon mashutdown kay dira mo na ginpasalig ang imo power! Amo gani ang isyu ta di indi PAG ITUKOD ANG COAL POWER PLANT SA CADIZ, para indi ta mag intra sa campaign nga IPA SHUT DOWN . Kay wala pa natukod TAPNA ON na! We are struggling for power shortage, that could be partly true, but surely we are not dying if have shortage. We will be dying if we got the plant on site.

Jeanette Bendijo Gamboa It is our government's responsibility to find ways for alternative energy, but absolutely not Coal. Isakto c Tiny Bee, when you bring Coal to Cadiz, it means you are not doing your work! Kay wala ka gali nangita lain nga energy sources? Kung wala investor, kundi ma stick ka sa fossil fuel kag mangita pa gid sang lain nga alternatives asta makakita ka investors!

amo lang ni ang analogy sina hu, kay ang imo ginhatag idea Mai Escalante kay tungod amo lang na ang investor nga makahatag sa aton alternative energy sa subong batunon ta na lang bisan lain sa lawas kag sa palibot basta mag tin ad kuno ang aton siudad,. Teh, pareho lang na sa gira, kung hatagan ka "PAN OS NGA TAE", kaunon mo na lang bisan pa kabalo ka nga mahilo ka, kay amo lang na ang available, kag shortage na sang pagkaon. indi ka na lang manguykoy sa duta basi may kamote ka nga makita, o basi pede ka pa manakot apan basi mas makaon pa kaysa sa "PAN OS NGA TAE" ! Ang mas malala pa, maayo lang kung ang nagpili sang "PAN OS NGA TAE" ANG MAKAON, INDI MAN. ANG MGA MGA TAWO SA PALIBOT YA nga wala na inform nga may choice gali sila!!!!! O basi ang nagpili sang "PAN OS NGA TAE " Para sa pumuluyo may ara FIVE STAR QUALITY NGA GINAKAON????? ABI BINAG BINAGA!!!!!!!!

Manong Nonoy Oplas, i have posted my comments, here, please please include it on your blog, para may ara gid thread nga dali lang makit an kag ma track.

Nonoy Oplas Yes, thanks. I can write my own ideas on any post as I own the blog, but I want my readers to see the other side, that is why I copy-paste exchanges there.

If people will say that "it is government responsibility to find ways for alternative energy", then if your government is lazy or corrupt, you're read, you will have no new power sources, back to frequent brownouts. Finding energy is everyone's concern. Some guys put up solar power in their roof and they become independent of the national or provincial grid, it's cool. So for those who oppose coal or oil-based power plants, it is their responsibility to bring in those they like, which is the renewables. No problem with me or other guys as I think their primary concern is to have new power sources as the number of people, houses, schools, shops, buildings, etc. is rising, not declining or flat-lining.

In reality, to wish for the renewables to provide sufficient power sources for the country, or for Negros and Cadiz in particular, is wishful thinking. These power sources have been there since the 90s, or the past decade, but the most that they can provide is 0.1 percent, or 1/10 or 1 percent, of the total power needs of the country.

Santi Dominic Batchar III nami na sya ang imo plano sir maayo na sya kong ang gov,t ta kabalo mag implement sang aton batas pro daw kahuyang gid.

Nonoy Oplas I read in some postings here, saying that many rich countries are shunning away from coal, and are shutting down more coal power plants. This does not seem to be true. A report from Bloomberg last month says that Germany is going back to coal, they opened recently a 2,200 MW coal plant near Cologne. Worldwide, coal produces about 30 percent of total global energy source, http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-19/merkel-s-green-shift-forces-germany-to-burn-more-coal-energy.html
Merkel’s Green Shift Forces Germany to Burn More Coal

Santi Dominic Batchar III 1) ini na planta maga bayad bala insakto nga tax? im sure indi nga a? kadamo da ho wala gabayad tax labi nagid ang ara sa swesto indi lang sa cadiz. 2) kong gusto mag asinso ang isa ka lugar indi pag esakripisyo ang maayong lawas sang pumuloyo. 3) nga a nag asinso ang cadiz sang una sang babae ang lider? wala man coal plant? 4) unahon ta anay ang problima sang basura sa cadiz bag o mag sulod sa bag o na project ang iya mahagtag basi basura naman.

Anabelle Anoche Dueñas what about SOLAR PANELS? I think they're cheap too. and most European countries use it now. why not make use of the sun since we live in a tropical country. Coal is cheap however, SOLAR ENERGY IS FREE AND CLEAN.

Marlon Azuelo Due to the popularity and very high demand for solar power generation, solar panels are still one of the most expensive materials for renewable energy production. But then again, putting the right amount of money to use requires a strong political will and genuine intention. Hangga't may mga politikong halang ang kaluluwa at walang kabusugan, lahat ng ating mga hinaing ay isa lamang malaking suntok sa buwan.

Yvonne Chua I agree Marlon Azuelo, it takes a strong political will and genuine intention gid to make Cadiz a better place. Very well said!

Reginaldo Real even anything of the above power sources mentioned ni Noy Oplas, bottomline commissionan lng gihapon szng mga blue chips ta nga mga politicos....

Back to high cost of electricity gihapon...

Norberto Real Shall we say lack of good governance and the tendency to serve one's self interest first before others. Paano naman mabawi ang ginastos ko noon bago ako maupo sa puwesto siyempre investment yon a shelve out ko na mga projects na matagal ang aking ROI na wala akong pakinabangan kundi ang iba. Akin muna i.e. the mindset of our leaders mula barangay hangang sa national leadership kung hindi interest personal kundi interest ng kauri nila ang inuuna. Kaya tayo dapat magising na pipili tayo ng mga leaders na MAKADIYOS, MAKALIKASAN, MAKABAYAN, MAKATAO hindi yong MAKASARILI....GISING NA TAYO....KUNG HINDI GANITO PA RIN KAHINATNAN NATIN...BULOK NA SISTEMA...LIPUNAN AT PAGPATAKBO SA BAYAN......PERO ANO TAYO CHRISTIANO ANG KARAMIHAN AT HINDI MAKATAO ANG GAWAIN HINDI TUGMA SA ATING PANIWALA KAYSA ATING GINAGAWA......TAMA BA YON? SIYA NAWA! AMEN.....

Alliah Magno AMEEN...DAPAT TULAD NG MGA DUTERTE SANG DAVAO....MAPGHALAGA SA TAO/KALIKASAN/MAKADIOS AT MAPAGKATIWALAAN NG KANYANG MGA KABAYAN...

Nonoy Oplas Guys, in case you did not check the first link that I gave, kindly check the tables again. As of 2010, the latest data that I saw from the DOE, power generation from solar + wind + biomass = 0.1 percent (or 1/10 of 1 percent) of total power in the Philippines. To hope to jump from 0.1 to even 1 percent, much less 10 percent, will be a huge leap of faith. I think the closest practical power source next to coal will be geothermal, that would come from Palinpinon I think in Neg. Or. The cost of transmitting that power from the south to the north of Negros Island can be costly, and cities in the middle are likely to get such geothermal power before it reaches Cadiz.

In Germany, a very "greenie" country, 23 new coal power plants are being constructed with combined power of 24,000 MW, http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,16136728,00.html
Brown coal makes a comeback amid protests | Environment | DW.DE | 01.08.2012

Reuel Balandra bout mo silingon sini Mr. oplas, sugot ka lang e sacrifice mo ang Health kag marine resources sang mga kubos mo nga mga kasimanwa? daw, indi man siguro maayu...

abi, gamita nyu man sang maayu ang iniskwelahan nyu...

Killroy Alob Domingo gus2 ko lng mamangkot kay nonoy oplas kag sir mai.may waste water treatment facility bla ang planta nga itukod sa aton?

gno bla ka safe ang 2big nga gna discharge sng isa ka planta kasubng cfpp?bsan pa hambalon ta closely monitored sng denr ang tawo mabayaran pro ang 2big halin sa planta nd ta ma suhulan

Alliah Magno ANG TAWO LANG PWEDE BAYARAN ANG GA OPISYO PALIKO SANG MGA KASIMANWA NILA SA SALA NGA MGA PAATHAG ..KUNG ANG KAALAMON NGA GUIN HATAG SA INYO SANG TAGAPAGLIKHA GAMITON NYO PARA MAKA BULIG SA MGA TAWO NGA KAPOS ANG NAHIBAL-AN INDE KAY MAG PATALANG PA KAMO...MAAYO TANI PARA NAMAN MAKATULOG KAMO NGA MAY PEACE OF MIND ..MAY NABULIG KAMO ..

Geraldine Balandra Noy Oplas, please do not site countries that are miles and ages ahead of us when it comes to industrialization...syempre damo ila kinahanglan nga power to sustain their industry...much as they would like to go on renewables they can't cope up with the needs... kita bag-ong sulpot pa lang manug sugod pa lang ngaa indi naton himoon sang eksato kag nagakadapat? kag ngaa sa Cadiz gid that any cadiznon in his right mind knows that majority of the city's population depend on the sea for their source of living... if you put poison in it..the fishes and other laman dagat will be affected...daw ano gid kadako ang mabulig sina sa katawhan kun ikumpara sa halit?

Alliah Magno KAG NOY OPLAS ANG GERMANY NAHADLOK MAPAREHO SILA SA JAPAN NGA ISARA NILA ANG NUECLAR PLANTS NILA ...KAG ANG GERMANY WALA SA KALINGKINGAN ANG PILIPINAS DAMO SILA SOURCE SANG PANGABUHIAN INDE MO MA COMPARA ANG CADIZ NGA ITUNGTUNG MO SA PINAKAGAMAY NILA NGA LUGAR INDE GANI MAKITA...KON ANG KUMBISIHON MO ANG LGU SANG CADIZ NGA INDE MAPATUKOD ANG CFPP DAMO PA MASALUDO SA IMO MA IPADAYAW KA PA NAMON KAG MGA KAAPOHAN MO ...

Alliah Magno ANG SOLAR PANEL MAY GUINA BALIGYA SA MANILA NGA SOLAR PACK MGA TAGA MINDORO AMO NA ANG GUINA USAR SUBONG...

Marlon Azuelo Noy Oplas may be referring to the so-called "Clean Coal Technology" which has indeed started in Spremberg, Germany and is now gaining popularity. For our benefit, as Wikipedia says "This technology is considered not to be a final solution for CO2 reduction in the atmosphere, but provides an achievable solution in the near term while more desirable alternative solutions to power generation can be made economically practical". If this cannot be averted, as it appears it is, we just have to make sure that, however temporary this solution is, the people of Cadiz should reap it's fruit by way of Low Power Rates. IF that is the genuine objective of this venture.

Geraldine Balandra there is no such thing as "clean coal"' and we are not only concerned about the CO2 but other byproducts as well particularly mercury... how can u prevent contamination of water particularly the rivers, in the case of Cadiz, Hitalon and the sea?. Can u imagine what will happen to the fishing industry and the people that depend on sea for their DAILY NEEDS?....I repeat,NEEDS, not WANTS.

Nonoy Oplas Budlay ni kay waay nyo ginabasa or gina intyende ang gina pangsulat earlier. Ti uulitin naman, I wrote above"
"the main issue is transparency of the city govt or not. If they were not transparent, the project proponent did not follow the EIA and other requirements, then that coal project should not proceed, it should be stopped. If they follow the requirements, the project should proceed."

Tani klaro na na. I am pro-nuke, pro-geothermal, pro-coal, pro-natural gas, pro-hydro, etc. Basta all proposed power plants should follow the process and environmental requirements. If they don't, including this coal proj in Cadiz, they should NOT proceed. If they do, then they should proceed.

And again, check the data of already existing, not what people would wish to be in an instant, in terms of power generation. Renewables are nice, but as of 2010 and possibly until today, they supply only 0.1 percent of the total national power generation. Ti anhon na karon kon piliton gid ang renewables bisan waay kaayo investors as these guys know the economics of putting up power plants.

Anne Lopez Sa Iloilo na CFPP ,the Engineers and administrators said that they are following all the required procedures but still people around are complaining and experiencing devastating effect of the CFPP. It is just easy to say that we are taking all precautions to make it safe para ma deceive ang mga tawo but the aftermath is Cadiz city will soon suffer the consequences of this action, not because they want it but because people in position whom they trust made the decision for them not for the common good but for personal reasons!

Tiny Bee SHUT UPT NOY OPLAS!

Jeanette Bendijo Gamboa hahhaahah! requirements lang ya ang issue di? hahahhaa Tiny Bee hahahahahha

Nonoy Oplas People are proud to show their intolerance and arrogance. Post more, anonymous Tiny Bee. As I posted above, I will publicize this thread in my blog, both civil and arrogant comments. Here is an example, 15 pages of debate,
http://funwithgovernment.blogspot.com/2012/09/energy-econ-5-coal-power-in-cadiz.html
Government and Taxes: Energy Econ 5: Coal Power in Cadiz, Negros Occidental

Nerissa Agudo-Turland Ang mahambal ko Mr Nonoy Oplas....kanami gid sang imo pagplastar sa sini nga discussion...kag of course madamo ikaw sang points nga gin hatag nga makaprovide information sa tawo....HOWEVER...bilang ari dire sa Australia as my second HOME...maaaaan..ang masiling ko sa imo....you have to be here to see it and to know it all. Gani ang madugang ko siling dire sa tanan sa inyo nga, "pasalamat kita nga Cadiznon nga karon lang gin pabalo sa aton ang ini nga concepto sang CFPP kag kadamo sang nauna sa aton, ...ano ang buot silingon sina? Palangga kita ka DIYOS indi bala? Kon tuod2x ka nga MAKATAO, MAKADIYOS...binag-binagon mo gid sang insakto ang ini nga proyekto. I think ha... ang bagay nga pamangkot kon bala gusto sang Cadiz nga maging industrialized city..ngaa Mr Oplas, ano bala ang plano sang Cadiz in few years time...na publicized bala ina? kag ang pag engage sa idea sang CFPP nasulod bala sa sina nga plano within those years?...

Tiny Bee NO COAL TO COAL

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH SHUT UP!

Nonoy Oplas Ti, sin-o moderator sini nga fb group? Lar Collins Benitez? Cristina Hucalla? TessBench Medado Palma? Others? Kamo da ang "policemen" what are civil and intolerant comments.
As for me, I will simply publicize comments, arrogant or otherwise, and how moderators police the group or tolerate arrogance. cheers.

Tiny Bee Nonoy, binag binaga!!!!!

Nonoy Oplas I understand that people are entitled to expose their own arrogance and intolerance when confronted with a contrary opinion. That is why they are hiding their real name or photo. They can demand transparency from the government, from whoever, but they themselves will never be transparent.

I am now addressing the moderators and owners of this fb group -- how can you encourage civil discourse among members, how can you encourage more transparency in the identity of members of this group. Tolerance of such non-transparency and uncivil comments would also show your own biases and attitude on the subject.

Wait for my blog post about this whole thread, within the day, thank you.

Tiny Bee shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Anne Lopez Grabe nga liko Ba 180 degrees gid!

Cristina Hucalla Dear Mr.Nonoy Oplas Oplas, how I have best regards and respect for a friend like you, but do not start with me. I do not moderate nor argue with anybody, so thank you for your invitation. I do follow your blogs and admire your intelligence but somehow I may be wrong? You can have your opinion. I do not ask questions because i can answer my own questions in my own way, so do not challenge my intelligence nor my capability to answer your questions. I have no time for your pitiness and disregard of human life....so thank you, continue with your crusade and I will continue mine....best regards.

Nerissa Agudo-Turland Hiding? No....my name is there and the profile pic is part of our campaign against CFPP and that too to recognise our members. Ok lang kon may arrogance kag intolerance kay madamo nga idea ang naga gwa sa tawo kon ang emotion nagaintra during the debate. Pareho sa imo, may nakuha ako kag sa ila man perowala ako nag paapekto sina kay maayo gid nga napabutyag ang dapat ipabutyag, indi bala?

Nonoy Oplas Tina, you misunderstand me. I mentioned you because I thought you are a moderator of this group. If not, then sorry. I am asking the moderators, whoever they are, to rule whether uncivil comments like asking people who do not agree with their ideas to shut up is fine or not. I never asked their opinion about the coal plant.

About absence of transparency of members, at least this Tiny Bee has admitted that she is also Nerissa, good.

Jeanette Bendijo Gamboa hehehheh @nonoy oplas tiny bee is her real name And Nerissa is another person and her name is Nerissa.

Nerissa Agudo-Turland Hmmmm...Tiny Bee...I think Nonoy Oplas wants to know you. Please don't assume that...because you have mentioned about the photo, I thought about telling you why we have that profile pic.

Nerissa Agudo-Turland Is this Nonoy Oplas, the Benvienido Oplas I have known before in high school?

Well, at least I have the guts to put my real and complete name. How about you?

Nonoy Oplas Yes, I am bienvenido, nonoy is my nickname. The reason why I expect civil discourse is precisely because we all came from cadiz city at one time or another and hence, intolerance and personal attacks should be shunned whenever possible. There will always be differences of opinions of many people on many things. The challenge only is how we can be tolerant of such divergence and dissimilarity of opinion. That is why people should be transparent -- them in government, national and local, them in corporations, them in civil society, or ordinary individuals.

Nerissa Agudo-Turland Now I know whom I'm talking to. Gin haumhaom ko lang gina e.

Ang madugang ko siling Ben nga madamo sa aton pareho nga Cadiznon nga vulnerable subong nga tinion tungod sang kadasig sang pagpakita sang aton gobyerno sa sini nga proyekto. Kon ang pamilya namon didto ginahambalan na nga 'done deal' na ang ina nga CFPP for Cadiz, ako makaintindi kon ano man nga angulo ang ipabutyag sang sina nga Cadiznon. Siguro ara man lang na sa aton kon paano ta ina batunon. Sa imo naman ginasiling nga 'civil discourse' kon formal gid nga guidelines sinang civil discourse ang gusto mo...indi gid ina dire masunod sa Fb...kay open ini sa tanan nga miyembro...kag antis bala ini ginsugdan may ara bala nga guidelines nga gin post for the members to follow sa sini nga civil discourse? kon wala, then anybody could express their feelings, ideas, etc...para lang mapabutyag ang kaugalingon nila...bilang taga Cadiz, ako nagabaton gid sang kon positive or negative nga hamblanon...entitled ang tanan kay aton ina siyudad, pamilya kag friends ang ara kag ato didto. Ano man ang pamtayagon kag panumduman mo ...isa lang ang aton ginafight subong...Cadiz to move forward...however...sa lainlain nga paagi sa pag forward...may pro kag may anti.....KAG AKO ARA SA ANTI...i'm not ashamed, i'm not afraid to talk, and most of all I can't be threatened because i will fight for my right and the right of my families and my friends in Cadiz.

Nonoy Oplas Ti ako man, I said it above 2x already, and several times in other threads, that if the coal project was done in bad faith, not above board, then it should be STOPPED. I am pro-nuke, pro-geothermal, pro-hydro, etc. If a geothermal or hydro or other power plants will be constructed in or near Cadiz and they too, did not conform with EIA and other environmental requirements, then they too should be STOPPED. The type of power plant is secondary to the issue of transparency by the city or national government, of whether they promulgate their own rules or not.

Nonoy Oplas With the emotionalism attached to this issue, many people cannot distinguish between support of the process by the city government, and support of coal (or nuke, or geothermal, or shale gas, or natural gas, etc.) power plant. These are entirely DIFFERENT issues. One can support a particular power project but oppose the process by which the government, national or local, has approved or disapproved the proposed project.

That is the role of civil discourse -- to remove or minimize emotionalism, to remove or minimize personal attacks and name calling, to be as tolerant as possible to contrary opinions.

For the record, having observed the various threads here, I believe that the Cadiz City government was NOT transparent about this issue and hence, is at fault for the various misunderstanding. If they cannot show that things were made above board, that project should be HALTED. But I also believe that fanatic opposition to coal also contributed to this misunderstanding.

Nerissa Agudo-Turland Thanks for those information Ben. I disagree though on your last statement about 'fanatic opposition.Why? let's take Cadiz only ha...can't speak for the other CFPP from other places, daku kaayo sang rason kon ngaa mag double time giho ang CKC or opposition of the CFPP for Cadiz. Because through the CKC's actions, this CFPP for Cadiz has been heard by many and NOW public hearings are conducted and people are beginning to talk about it. Ginhimo lang ang DAPAT himuon sang mga concerned nga Cadiznon to add education to the people nga malambot kag give the people the chance to think and decide it for themselves. Indi bala? mayo iya ikaw kag ako nga may nahibaluan na kita...pero paano ang masa?

Nonoy Oplas Nerissa, I refer to "fanatic opposition to coal". Even if a coal project has passed all the EIA requirements, they will still oppose it. Like the greenies in the US, Germany, UK, etc., even if the governments there are super-super-strict with regards to health and environmental concerns and have approved those coal plants as having passed those strict requirements, they still oppose the power plant simply because it is coal.

Nerissa Agudo-Turland In that context, I agree with you. However, I believe that they have enough evidence to back up their claims. Let's leave it with them and just focus on Cadiz....Anyway, good to talk to you and great to hear from you ...it has been years before I heard the name Benvienedo Oplas. Good day!

Shilitte Miravalles Sinoy Olvido Nonoy Oplas - somehow manong nonoy naka agree ako on what u stated on top. If this project was done in good faith, their wont be any questions. Coz if its done in good faith, then transparency follows..pero that's not the case.given all this people's track record? ul puke...

Nonie Fernandez we are not "fanatic opposition to coal", we are a proud "pro-life fanatic", as long as there is danger to human life brought by this dangerous and poisonous coal plant, we will not stop making noise and take action just to stop this project.

Yvonne Chua fanatic because we see the project in its TOTALITY, FACT is in the Philippines, even the "latest" CFPP with the "new" technology is having the same problems as the old CFPP.(ang TOLEDO nga gina-sample ni Mai) Cg indi ta pag intrahon anay ang hazards sa environment k wla mo na ginarecognize. Lets talk PLANT PROCESSES, Banquerohan is a populated area, ano kadako masakop da sng planta? enough bla ang area nila nga mag-accomodate sng waste products sng planta, me ara bla dra dumping site sng waste water nila o may ipatindog bla nga waste water treatment plant dra, ano ka-fervent sng commitment sang DENR nga kung me violations ang planta, matapna nila? US,Germany,UK lagpad na ya kadutaan kg indi overpopulated. Texas lng 14hrs ka na ga drive ari ka man dyapon Texas, maski mapatindog na dri sla ya CFPP, they have enough GHOST LAND and RIGID regulating agencies for EVERY aspect of of their CFP processing plant, indi mo di ya malagayan mga tao ya k milyones ang lawsuit kag ipa-close ang planta mo. Dra sa Cadiz ano ya? Kag ngaa dra gd sa Cadiz haw. Correct me if im wrong, s news this project has the Governor's blessing, kung income generating gd ni kg safe kg makabulig sa power supply kg employment kg mag-attract investor ngaa wla nya ginrecomment man sa Sagay haw? Kilid baybay mana ang Sagay pwd mana da. Ngaa nagsugot ya ang CADIZ sa pila lng kabulan? A project this big will take more than that time to plan and counterplan. Pro-CFPP ka pero anti-government process ka on how they approve/disapprove the project . AKO ya ANTI gd sa DUHA, CFPP and the process of their project approval/disapproval.

Nerissa Agudo-Turland CKC believes in simple HEALTH terms, , prevention is better than cure.

Igor Shatuslav Triroguff Yvonne Chua, may punto ka gid... nga-a indi ta pag hambalon ang Gobernador, nga, ipatindog ta una anay sa Barangay niya nga gina istaran sa Sagay ang CFPP kag idason ta ang sa Cadiz... tan-awon ta kun mag sugot siya... kun mag sugot siya, hala, ipatinduga niyu na ang CFPP nga ina'... kay salamahon ta ang tanan...

Yvonne Chua thanks Igor Shatuslav Triroguff, engineering gd bla tani gusto ko nga kurso galing gusto ni Mommy nursing haha, nevertheless blessing gd dyapon.

Reginaldo Real total two mn ka coal plant, challenge ta sila ah, sa sagay city ang isa b....daw ok na Gor imo idea ah...

Nerissa Agudo-Turland Nge! mahuo na ya si Gov kay la kamo kabalo ka plano nya sa future...balo ko ya...lol!...di ta sya machallenge sina...yes dayon na bahala da ang taga sagay...lol!

Igor Shatuslav Triroguff ini si oplas ya, ga hambal lang ini siya permi compliance... mr. oplas, ikaw siguro ka intyendi ka man nga moro² lang permi ang hampang sang gobyerno, halin pa sadto. mr. oplas, ang insakto nga compliance, dapat ipa butyag sa pamuloyu kun ano ang maayu kag mala-in nga epekto sang proyekto in Long term... kag ara ang pag tambong sang tanan nga sektor sang so-ciudad! indi lang ang gin pang boto nga officiales... indi ka man siguro mango' para elaborate pa ina'... kay kun ako ang pamangkuton sang personalidad mo, kun sa WWII pa, upod ka ni Hitler! Genocide, ang buluhaton!

Nonoy Oplas Moderators, check that posting by Igor -- "upod ka hitler". Again, I will not stoop to lowly attacks. And this Igor does not read. I said it above 3x or more, if the process was not above board, the project should be STOPPED.
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See the language and argument of these guys. I used to moderate a very dynamic discussion yahoogroups in the late 90s up to about middle of last decade, pilipinasforum@yahoogroups.com. There was no facebook at that time, egroups and later yahoogroups was the primary social network for such discourses. Debates on various topics, not just one, would erupt almost daily. Protagonists are all professionals -- lawyers, young businessmen, economists, political scientists, a few natural scientists, and so on. A number of OFWs too.

Moderating such a group of highly vocal, highly articulate and very eloquent English speakers and writers,  while articulating my own arguments and philosophical biases at the same time was difficult. But nonetheless, personal attacks, name-calling were kept to the minimum if not controlled. Check the Pilipinas Forum thread in this blog, all of them are long postings and exchanges. There is an important role for moderators and owners of a discussion group to maintain a civil discourse and debate.

It is difficult to clarify things when high emotion and foul language are used by certain protagonists who cannot tolerate or imagine that contrary opinions can exist in this planet other than theirs.
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Update, September 17, 2012, 5:40pm...

After I posted the above exchanges in the same thread, more comments followed, from September 14 evening until today....

Jeanette Bendijo Gamboa Nonoy Oplas, fanatics?? and quoting Mark Twain's " Never argue with stupid people ... ". well you've got your facts we've got ours. It so happened that you write the blog, so you could call the people you've argued with fanatics. Your arguments are very unacceptable to those who cared for life. You are pro nuke, pro coal yet pro life. that is two opposing statements.

Jeanette Bendijo Gamboa Nonoy Oplas If the Coal Plant passed the Environment Impact Assesment EIA, let the plant be built in Cadiz.
That's your stand. We are saying, nothing should pass the environment assessment in terms of coal, because we have already known the impact. And we know how things are going in the Philippines, especially in Cadiz. You can call us fanatics, but at least we are standing on what we believe in. Ikaw ya ano ang stand mo? if ... else ? we can't do if ... else sa aton banwa! kay budlay na ishut down ang planta kung natukod na. eventhough nakapasar pa na cla sa EIA!

Jeanette Bendijo Gamboa lastly Nonoy Oplas, there is no point in giving arguments to you, as you said, bisan ano pa nga facts ang ihatag sa inyo nga mga PRO COAL. "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." - St. Thomas Aquinas

Jeanette Bendijo Gamboa Nonoy Oplas, you can write anything you want in you blog, calling people who cared for life fanatics and quoting Mark Twain's "Never argue with stupid people . . . ". We may also quote the same for you and to those PRO COAL that's claiming to be PRO LIFE.

Yvonne Chua u will be disappointed ko know that most MOST people are interested in fashion, make-up, clothes, shoes, jewelries and celebrities than ur political blog so please dont shove it down our throats!!!

Nonoy Oplas Yvonne, Jeanette, are you hurting? One can ignore a blog, a website, etc. so nothing is shove on your throats. I simply publicize actual postings and comments, mostly from the anti-coal camp. Then readers of my blog can see their attitude and their language. As I said, people are free to expose their character or lack of character publicly, I gave them all a free venue and space in my blog. You should be happy, not hurting.

Jeanette Bendijo Gamboa ok noy ah, kapoy na ko Nonoy Oplas ah. padayuna na lang imo, kay padayunon man namon ang amon ah. hehehhehehe! :P

Nonoy Oplas Precisely. I have actually stopped debating you guys in the group because while I can debate point by point, I cannot continue if there are personal attacks. Being a moderator myself of several discussion yahoogroups in the past, I always remind people to stick to the issue and refrain from personal attacks. Those who violate after several warning, I would shame or remove from the list. That is why all groups have moderators, the latter set the rules. If personal attacks are tolerated, then the most mean, the most despicable characters will always win in any debate. Btway, I will update my blog post and include the above recent comments from you and Yvonne. Cheers.

Jeanette Bendijo Gamboa sure, feel free to update your blog Nonoy Oplas, please include my comment here too. good luck. :)

Iyah Michaela Ante ahayyyyyyy....wala na gid haw? Exposé ang character and lack of character sang mga anti coal Ti ang mga pro coal ya mga good ang character nga a ang anti coal lng napakita sa blog....

Save Cadiz That's why if you want to control the users you can create your own forum. We can also help you if you want, just like what we said to mr Filbert. Global Moderator man kami since 2003. Respito lang sa admin sini nga group kay sila ang tag.iya sini nga balay. Wala ka may mahimu kung indi matuman ang gusto mo kay indi ni imu Nonoy Oplas. You can create again yahoogroups if you want, there you can control any user. Kung point by point man lang nasabat man sang mga anti coal pero kung tungod matyag mo may personal attack amu na nag untat ka then that's your problem. Before ka maging moderator dapat naagyan mo na tanan na batasan ka users

Nonoy Oplas Iyah, people expose themselves by the words that they utter and write. I do not have to expose those things myself because people do it voluntarily. As I called the attention of the moderators above, I cited comments from Tiny Bee, "SHUT UPT NOY OPLAS!", from Igor, "personalidad mo, kun sa WWII pa, upod ka ni Hitler! Genocide, ang buluhaton!"

If one will return the favor, then people will just be throwing one ugly statements and accusations after another, and the issue is sidetracked as personal attacks will dominate. That s why I refrain from name calling whenever possible.

Save Cadiz, that is why I stopped debating, at least temporarily. If people will call me as "pro-Hitler" or what have you, I will defer to the moderators if they will stop such name calling or not. In the absence of such explicit warning from the moderators, I take it that they either missed it, or they tolerate such personal attacks, and I will beg off from stooping too low, from being an equally despicable character. Mark Twain is right. Some guys have great experience at being despicable, it's up to the other party whether to stoop down to such low level or not.

Save Cadiz Noy ka simple lang guid kung indi mo kaya ang discussion better pahigad ka na lang. Kaysa sige ka reklamo. Remember FB group ni ya

Yvonne Chua you stop debating because u hav nothing else to debate, indi kmi paghimua rason.

Save Cadiz Oh guys bisita man kamu d please ay. Blog ni ni Mr Nonoy Oplas. Basaha niyo d liwat gin pangpost natun sa iya blog,please! Okay lang na sulit sulit basta basaha nyo lang liwat please. Please visit kamu sini na link http://funwithgovernment.blogspot.com/2012/09/energy-econ-6-intolerance-in-anti-coal.html. As what he said sikat na kita d kay ara na ta sa blog ya. Amu na please visit kamu d para ma dugang sikat ta. Please man ay. Kay ang pro coal bala gina post gid ni ang link ya diri sa fb. Ambot lang ah ngaa ang iya lang blog nga may connection sa CFPP ang ma post nila sa FB nila. Wala na bang iba? Kailangan pa bang imemorize yan? Tot tot tot
Government and Taxes: Energy Econ 6: Intolerance in Anti-Coal Hysteria, Cadiz Coal Project

Iyah Michaela Ante Sir Nonoy Oplas sana para fair naman kag mabal an sang mga nagafollow sa blog mo post mo man ang comment mo para mabasa kg makita man nila Kung nga a nakahambal sila sang amo sina.... Salamat sir

Nonoy Oplas Repeat, for the nth time:
Philippine power generation by source as of 2010:
Coal, 34.4%, Natural gas, 28.8%, Geothermal 14.7%, Hydro 11.5%, Oil-based 10.5%, Wind+solar+biomass, 0.1%

So Yvonne, answer this: You advocate zero coal, if your wish become true, more than 1/3 of the entire Philippines will have no power. This is a good scenario for you?

Save Cadiz, thank you for the plugging. I removed my earlier posting about my blog post as you already gave the favor. It should be an inspiration, or a challenge for you all, to start blogging too. I assure you, it's a rewarding experience. You will be forced to elaborate your ideas carefully, watch your data, watch your grammar and sentence construction, and get ready for reader reactions and counter-comments. Cheers.

Yvonne Chua Mr. Oplas, 1/3 of the Philippines is NOT MY PROBLEM! Why dont u advocate CFPP to that 1/3 of the Philippines and MAYBE that will solve the problem! AKO KONTRA COAL!

Santi Dominic Batchar III nonoy indi man to tanan na comment ging butang mo dapat tanan para mabal an sang pumuloyo sang cadiz kag mabinagbinag nila kong insakto ang amon gina sulat deri or ang imo man, indi pag pili ah tanan ibutang sa blog.

Nonoy Oplas Yvonne, answer the question, it's very simple, answerable by Yes or No.
Santi, which comment above in this thread were not included? Kindly point them out. I wrote at the start, "...I will blog and publicize all succeeding comments in this thread." I did not say I will blog all threads in this group.

Santi Dominic Batchar III nga a ang kay tine ging sulat mo haw? amo na gani gina inbetar kita na isulat mo tanan para mabal an ka tawo o pumuloyo sang cadiz kag sang iban na tawo nga ang cadiznon gali naga pamatok sini na project ( gina respito kita kong indi mo mahimo tanan na comment e publiceze imo na ya diritso ) cadiznon binag-binaga nyo gid maayo indi lang ang subong dapat ang masunod pa na inadlaw.

Yvonne Chua i am not oblige to answer your same ole same ole question. haha

Iyah Michaela Ante magnamenda helps prevent Alzheimer's Kay daw may ara gid mo pabalik balik na LNG amo man gihapon ahay

Santi Dominic Batchar III pro noy indi pag himua propaganda ang imo blog, kay kami ya nag dako sa cadiz kag na nga buhi a cadiz na wala propaganda kay ultimo lang kami na pumuloyo sang cadiz kag naga kabalaka sang amon madangtan kong may coal plant na dira.

Nonoy Oplas Bad news for the anti-coal camp:
More "Earth Hour" days in Mindanao. So...
AP putting up a 300 MW coal plant in Davao scheduled for completion by 2015.
Alcantara group plans a 120 MW coal plant in Sarangani by 2014.
Evonik Steag GmbH of Germany, AP and La Filipina Uy Gongco Corp. to expand their 232 MW coal plant in Misamis Oriental by another 200 MW by 2013.
PNOC-EC plans to put up a 100 mw mine-mouth coal plant in Zamboanga Sibugay by 2016, http://www.interaksyon.com/business/43296/parts-of-mindanao-reeling-from-2-hour-power-outages---aboitiz-exec
Parts of Mindanao suffering from 2-hour power outages - Aboitiz exec - InterAksyon.com

Nonie Fernandez ok lng na, mski diin cla mpatindog coal bsta indi lng sa cadiz..kon gusto nyo didto nlng dal-a sa sagay inyo coal indi lng dre sa cadiz..NO to CFPP in cadiz mn gyapun kmi ah..kg ang anti-coalition dre sa cadiz wla gahambal nga dulaon ang tnan nga coal plant sa kalibutan, kmo lng na nga pro coal ang ghambal cna, ang amun ya INDI LNG DRE SA CADIZ!!!kon gusto mo gd ya mgcoal dra nlng tupad sng gina estaran mo sbong..

Nonoy Oplas Then Nonie, you have a conflict with guys like Tiny B, Geraldine B, Jeanete B, Yvonne, others who have declared an absolutist "No Coal Anywhere". And I think Sagay or Escalante might get the coal project, then sell high to Cadiz or other electricity buyers. Nice arrangement then.

Geraldine Balandra I would like to let you know Noy OPlas that we are not after the closure of all existing CFPP in our country, what we want is, if ever we have to put up a source of power, we should not put up another CFPP most specially in our City because of the risk and expected effect on the health of the people and the damage it will bring to our environment...you have sited countries that has extreme need for immediate power source and is pushed against the wall to put up CFPP...we have to consider that we haven't attained their status of industrialization yet...why do other countries on the other hand are trying to close coal plants and vigorously put up Renewable Energy sources? Please try to read my posts, there are a number of them... as I have said before, If other countries are trying to correct their blunders in messing up with our planet, why should we start making the same blunders they made and not do it Right to start with?...I know it is expensive...but in the long run, it is worth it...

Neil Ortaliz Pedrosa Nonoy Oplas, wala ini sa pilitay ang mga suggestions mo to change our stand against CFPP. I have high regards to your brilliance but it doesn't mean nga sangayon kami sa imo gina rekomendar. Ginpautwas na sang pamuloyo ang ila pangamba. Indi guid ni maintiendehan nimo kag Pro coal officials. I'm challenging you again Noy, Ngaa gin etsa pwera ini nga Planta sang Pulupandan, Bago, San Carlos and Davao City? Asta subong wala na gin address nga pamangkot ni Mai Escalante kag sa supporter sang CFPP. Don't give the other alternative suggestions you had been advocating us kay simply Lang nga pamangkot ina. Kong magbalik kami sa Kingki as what you'd mentioned, himoon ina sang pamuloyo basta palayo Lang sa peligro. Biru pa lang sang kingki gaitum na imo ilong and how much nga simburyong carbon monoxide hakloon sang tanan. We are not "Fanatics" for something we believed that is immensely detrimental to the environment and mankind.

Nonie Fernandez sulit-sulit nlang ta sini istorya wla katapusan amo mn gihapon ang pkadtuan..hayzz!

Yvonne Chua haha u better read ur own blog and check my stand...to put it bluntly sa CADIZ gid k maulan greenie.

Neil Ortaliz Pedrosa tsakto ka guid Nonie Fernandez. We are going in circles but indi gid nila makumbinsi tanan dire Kay simple nga pamangkot indi madiretso maathagan.

Nonie Fernandez ky ang budlay sa ila gina fight ta ya ang cadiz ang ila ya gina generalize ang bilog nga kalibutan ay ambot..katalaka na mg cge pamati sulit-sulit...patindog cla coal mski diin ky mga tawo mn didto ang ma fight kg ma kontra cna, ang aton ya gina protektahan ang aton mn cuidad..budlay gd ni ya intiendihon???

Nonoy Oplas NIMBY (not in my back yard) is everywhere, it's understandable. Many big cities produce lots of solid waste but they don't want any waste disposal facility in their own area. The same applies for coal power. I think NIMBY ("coal might be ok, but not in our city") is better than the hard core, Greenpeace type of argument "No Coal Anywhere".

As I repeatedly said, I am pro-nuke, pro-geotheral, pro-coal, pro-hydro, pro-natural gas, etc. Also pro-solar, pro-wind, provided they won't require FIT and other forms of taxpayers subsidy. I support any power plant, so long as they pass EIA and other health and environmental requirements, they should be given a chance. Cheers.

Geraldine Balandra Honestly Noy, do you really believe or just think na lang they can comply with the EIA requirements ALL THE TIME? DIRI SA PILIPINAS? hahaha! cake lang gani nga pirmi mo gina bake may sapatos pa kun kis-a...ako Noy naga insert IV line sa mga bata adlaw adlaw for the past 20 years pero may palapak pa kun kis-a...:) forgive the analogy but I hope you get what I mean...:)

Nonoy Oplas You got a point there. But there is no stable power plant that has "zero damage" to the environment or health. What could be the power plant/s that supply electricity to your hospital, to your house? If it's coal power, would you exchange clean and coal-free environment in favor of no electricity to your hospital and your own house?

Geraldine Balandra did I say ZERO DAMAGE? What I am saying is minimal damage... please try to read my previous comment..did I say I want all existing Coal Plants should be shut down? ay ano no man daw mga may Alzheimer's na kita diri haw?

Daw kalayo na gid sinang pagintyende mo haw? All I was saying is kon mag dungang kita power source why not RENEWABLES kay bisan tuod mahal pero in the long run it is worth it...:)

Nonoy Oplas You wrote above, "there is no such thing as "clean coal"' and we are not only concerned about the CO2 but other byproducts as well particularly mercury..." You imply coal is such a dirty power that should be disapproved, in Cadiz or anywhere.
About the renewables, check again the data I posted above. Only 0.1 % of PH power generation coming from renewables, sooo unreliable. Alzheimers on-going?

Geraldine Balandra I wrote it because that is the truth...a scientific fact... but I am not a fool to believe that at present we could do away with it...that is why if we can minimize the production of these harmful byproducts, by all means we should...

Save Cadiz Your welcome noy, gusto mo ipost ko pa gid ang mga articles mo sa interaksyon? Ayy noy indi na namun kilanlan mag ubra blog para ma express amun na batyagan kag side namun. Indi man kami kilanlan e force para lang mag pretend behind our true intention. Ngaa hilig ka gid mag side comment kag mang hilabot sa amun na indi man dapat?!

Nonoy Oplas Save Cadiz, the same intolerance as Tiny B? That I should shut up, I should not make "side comment kag manghilabot sa amon"? Come on. So long as no personal attacks are employed, all ideas, all comments are fair game, fair targets.

Geraldine, show ACTUAL stable power generation in MW, by that Bangui wind farm in Ilocos. Usually, wind farms produce only about 10-20 percent of their installed capacity. So if it's a 25MW wind farm, it can deliver only 2.5 to 5MW of stable power, meaning can be sustained at 24 hours power needs. That's good to supply the electricity needs of a small municipality.

Geraldine Balandra ther eis only o.i percent in our country because we do not exert enough effort to envite investors to invest in renewables... I don't understand and I dont know the reason why... I...See More
24 minutes ago · Like

Nonoy Oplas Wrong Geraldine. There was heavy effort, there was heavy lobbying, to get the renewable firms to come to the Philippines. That is why we have the renewable energy (RE) law of 2008 or RA 9513. Former DOE Secretary Vince Perez himself pushed that law. After his term at the DOE ended, he migrated to head the WWF to continue their energy cronyism and rent-seeking lobby, but still not enough takers, http://funwithgovernment.blogspot.com/2012/07/energy-econ-2-renewable-energy-and-high.html
Government and Taxes: Energy Econ 2: Renewable Energy and High Electricity Prices

Geraldine Balandra by the way, what you are saying about the unreliability of the Renewables are the statistiscs coming from places that are not suitable to have these renewable sources...we should know first what is suitable to our place before we can embark on such projects... honestly, we have enough resources, what we need is political will to do what is right...: ato Noy sa pihak basaha ang ginpost ko...:

No Noy it is heavy politics that hampers the project... if other countries

Nonoy Oplas I saw that link on "Wind energy in the Philippines" that you posted and it's a lousy article. That is why I asked, how much in ACTUAL stable power generation did those wind farms deliver? 2MW? 5, 10 MW? Actual power generation is different from installed capacity. For wind, usually power generation is only 10 to 20 percent of its installed capacity.

"it is heavy politics that hampers the (renewbles) project." Wrong again. On the contrary, it is heavy politics and lobbying -- by WWF, Greenpeace, DOE, Sec. Vince Perez himself, etc. -- that led to the enactment of RA 9513. If you compare the RE law of the Philippines with the RE regulations in other Asian countries like Japan, Korea, China, Thailand, ours is more rent-seeking and cronyistic, http://funwithgovernment.blogspot.com/2011/02/energy-rationing-and-climate-alarmism.html
Government and Taxes: Energy rationing 2: The Renewable Energy (RE) law

Geraldine Balandra Even so Noy, then why is it that other countries including China are trying to increase their Renewables? ano na ya ang ginapangbasa namon? estorya lang? Kung ang other countries are doing it ngaa kita ya gani indi makahimo sina? isa lang ginbasa mo? basaha lihog iban ay. and excuse me please, dont't use your economic jargons to me because I am trying my best not to use medical terms with you...:) All I have been doing was letting people know of the ill effects of Coal Power Plants and it is not a lie... Now, I think it is for the people to choose electricity or their LIFE... and we must respect them whatever choice they will make...:)

Save Cadiz Nonoy Oplas nag hambal ko bala na shut up ka directly? Kay ka layo naman b sang gina lab.otan ka isturya ta d. Pa intrahun mo pa kami sa blog mo para maintsindihan ka namun? Kami ayhan na intsindihan mo? Indi mo na kami bala pag stylan na palibot libuton mo kami tapos ma fishing ka lang sa kung anu ang mga previous statement namun na pwede mo mapagwa na ga contradict. Amu na bala ang gina tawag na pangitaan paagi na masugpunan kay utod na. Indi mo na kami paagyan ka trolling kag flaming mo.

Nonoy Oplas Geraldine, it is true that many countries are expanding their installed capacity for renewables. But for every 1MW of renewables they put up, they could possibly be putting up 5MW of coal, or nuke, or natural gas and quickly soon, shale gas. About 30 percent of global power generation comes from coal, coal is getting cheaper worldwide as the rich countries are slowly shifting to another fossil fuel energy source, shale gas, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/9544677/Greens-and-Gummer-routed-as-shale-gas-wins-new-enthusiasts.html
Greens and Gummer routed as shale gas wins new enthusiasts - Telegraph 
Green lobby groups have been defeated, as energy minister favours massive investment in gas generation

Geraldine Balandra oh come on Noy, you are talking big, we are not a big country we do not need that much power... we are just a group mostly of tiny islands that can make use of the renewables...:)

Igor Shatuslav Triroguff Kanugun sang iniskwelahan bala sini ni Oplas mo, wala gid niya bala gina gamit sang maayu... ang patalang lang bala sa iya kasimanwa amo ya ang iya...(Snake#) ~ Get your free smileys! www.myemoticons.com ~

Nonoy Oplas Moderators, another bait to stoop low to being a despicable character. Are these comments categorically allowed and encouraged? thank you.
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You catch people from their own words, that is one beauty of written debate. In the early comments by Jeannete above, she said that they are not fanatics, that they are simply "pro-life" and saying explicitly or implicitly that those who do not agree with their arguments are "anti-life."

Now see her succeeding statements, that even if a coal power plant passes an EIA, "nothing should pass the environment assessment in terms of coal". They are arguing in absolute, 100 percent opposition, and total disregard of laws that institute the environmental impact assessment (EIA) system. And they are hurting when you call them as "fanatic anti-coal" people.

Greenpeace, along with WWF and other climate alarmists, have done a great job in miseducating many people about energy and climate. And that is how many people have the automatic and fanatic equation, "Coal = Illness, Death." So more coal power plants, more illness, more death among the people. So the EIA or whatever environmental clearance requirements by the government should be thrown away if the power plant being proposed is coal-fired. There should be zero coal plant in any country in the planet. This is a fanatic and dogmatic belief.

For newbies who have not explored this blog yet and my stand on climate alarmism, here are my recent papers on the subject:

Climate Tricks 13: Block Skeptics and Keep Fooling the Public, July 25, 2012
Climate Tricks 14: Flooding, El Nino and Arctic Ice, August 08, 2012
Climate Tricks 15: AGW Fiction, Avoiding Natural Climate Drivers, August 12, 2012
Fat-Free Econ 20: Flooding and Global Cooling, August 13, 2012
Climate Tricks 16: On GMST, the Sun, GISS, HadCRU, and Coal, September 04, 2012

Meanwhile, it's almost midnight now, the group's moderators have remained silent on my questions whether low blows are allowed or tolerated. In the absence of such intervention by the moderators, I take it that such actions are allowed.

It is a case of whoever can throw the most insults, the most mean and low blow comments who will win. Gone are the days and years where I could trade with "You're a moron!" "And you're an idiot" "But you're a Hitler fan" "And you're a fascist dictator".

At this stage, or in this case, the anti-coal camp has won. Divert the debate from numbers and real issues to low blow comments to ensure debate victory.
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See also:
Fat-Free Econ 16: Coal, Climate and Government, July 17, 2012Energy Econ 1: Coal Power, July 24, 2012
Energy Econ 2: Renewable Energy and High Electricity Prices, July 30, 2012
Energy Econ 3: Market Reforms in India's Electricity Sector, July 30, 2012
Energy Econ 4: Oil Prices and Taxes, August 27, 2012
Energy Econ 5: Coal Power in Cadiz, Negros Occidental, September 06, 2012

4 comments:

nilo defensor said...

I should use the same argument you are raising against those who join this discussion. It is already a public knowledge that permits were issued in haste to make it appear that project is done in good fate. The fact that the corporation which would undertake the project is under capitalize and founded a year only before they apply for government compliance only suggest that there is dark secret behind.

Furthermore, the intolerance you are talking is also a result of your own confused stand.

As stated in your blog, you are pro all. Pro coal, pro nuke, pro geothermal pro everything.

This would make you a worthless name unworthy for any cause. You try cautiously insult those who ardently take a stand against the project without understanding that their strong sentiment is a product of their frustration before the insurmountable odds that would affect not only their life but the life of their children.

You even failed to see the obvious reality that the government who ought to protect them is the same adversary their are facing.

As an economist yourself, I admire you for your credential, but I took pity on you and your school where you get your honor for such a shame you brought either for lack in-depth analysis of the economic situation of the city whenever the project would start to operate.

The higher cost of electricity you are talking if the project should failed to be established in Cadiz seemed greater compare to the health and environmental hazards this project would bring to the residence if we follow your argument.

This would make you ignorant of the prevailing position of all government in the necessity of raising the taxes on business which affects our health and imposed carbon taxes on major industries that pollute our environment.

We cannot avoid development, as much as we love our city to be progressive. But, this two should come not in the expense of the people and the environment. The fact that the project was done without a proper public hearing manifest the conspiracy of the government to approve the project for whatever interest they might get.

Now, on the premise that the coal plant would bring progress to the city, give me one LGU which their economic situation improve when a power plant was established in their area?

Or you did forget that LGU's with power plants could not even benefit with the income of this plant since the situs of their income tax is in Cebu where the corporate office is located?

Nonoy Oplas said...

I hope you are using your real name. I despise cowards, fictitious names, faceless people, who throw strong words and cannot stand by those words because they are simply irresponsible and plain cowards.

To your points. Since you seem to be anti-coal, and possibly anti-nuke and other anti-everything that "hurts nature", then you are a worthless and useless activist who only grabs electricity once they are produced. As I posted above and in previous posts, the Philippines was 34 percent dependent on coal as of 2010. This year or next year it could be near 40 percent, and if you are in Metro Manila or Luzon, could be 50 percent coal power dependent. Many of the bleeding heart activists and so-called "planet saviours" hate coal so much but are opportunist users of electricity coming from coal power plants.

I pity you and whatever school you came from which I guess, you may not name. If you read my comments above, I did not glorify the city government, I have repeatedly argued that if the ECC was done in haste, if there was no transparency in the granting of the permit, the project should be halted, should be stopped. I am no lover of BIG government, local or national or multilateral. But your pathetic mind could not grasp that.

Your idiotic hatred of coal power and the underdevelopment of LGUs that host coal power plants disallow you to see that all the fears you exhibited did not happen. Pagbilao in Quezon, Sual in Pangasinan, Masinloc in Zambales, Naga in Cebu, Lapaz in Iloilo, etc. There was no tragic health and environmental result after coal power plants were put up there. On the other hand, people there are not playing hide and seek everyday or every night in the dark because of lack of electricity. My friend in GenSan is cursing because they have 2-3x a day power outages. Dark streets are also conducive for more crimes and more road accidents than if there are stable lights on.

Next time you comment, establish your full identity and not just throw strong words in full fear and cowardice that will reflect on your personality.

nilo defensor said...

A penny for your thought Mr. Pro everything. As I read your blogs and your works, I became more confused on your stand and all your advocacy.

You even want to argue with words not with facts as I supposed you would do being an economist.

Words they say are cheap. But electricity is not, and the brown outs you are telling me made you ignorant of how electricity is sold in the market.(or should I discussed to you Mr. Economist?

I am not an idiot who hates coal or any development as long as it is done in good faith and for the benefit of the community who really need such.

What I really hates are those people who pretend to help a cause or offer a solution but in fact just offering nothing at all.

Anyway, if you want to do something here's a nice task for you Mr. Think Thank. Why not do research or post on the factual economic development of an area with coal plants. Of course this would include the data before the establishment of plants and years after.

Perhaps, that way, I'll give you the respect you deserve.

Until then.

P.S.

Happy Holiday and God Bless!

Nonoy Oplas said...

From your first comment, I immediately suspected that you are a coward and a mediocre at the same time. Coward because you're too fearful to reveal your full name and affiliation and hence, cannot accept accountability to strong but ignorant words associated with your personality. Now it's proven. But this blog tolerates bright and mediocre minds, that is why comments are unmoderated, they are immediately posted. Allowing mediocre minds to be posted in the comments section is also an opportunity for other readers to how lowly some minds can be. Transparency works both ways, it highlights bright and non-bright minds, brave and coward commenters, and so on.

A good way for people who think they have bright ideas to share is to start blogging and writing too. Do research that they order others to do as if they are their subordinates.

So, more idiotic comments, "Nilo Defensor". You are not banned from exposing your mediocre thoughts here. Cheers.