One friend in facebook, Arcy Garcia, posted below in his fb wall. See the succeeding exchanges. Arcy gave me implicit permission to post the exchange in this blog. We also have an earlier discourse about capitalism vs. socialism, see Political Ideology 8: Diskurso sa Kapitalismo, Sosyalismo at Gobyerno last November 15, 2011.
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The Metro Manila Development Authority is planning to build elevated roads or skyways alongside esteros (creeks and streams) in the next two years to ease traffic congestion in the metropolis.
Arcy Garcia
sana maka-isip naman at makapagbalangkas kayo diyan sa MMDA ng isang makataong siyudad.....konsultahin nyo naman ang mga arkitekto at inhenyerong matitino, at hindi mga taga construction companies....Jun Palafox, yung magaling na arkitektong intramuros, etc; balikan nyo mga plano ni Imelda (kahit maganda yun, may mga kakaibang plano yun!); yung holistic; yung kasama ang watershed ng Rizal, at katubigan sa north NCR- para maisama ang climate change effects sa plano.
Tuesday at 6:11pm ·
Nonoy Oplas Arcy, anywhere in the world, people want to congest in big cities. Kaya they are building skyscrapers, skyways, subways, tunnels under the river under the mountain -- HK, Bangkok, Taipei, Seoul, KL, Tokyo, Jakarta, Sing, Beijing, etc. Gusto talaga ng mga tao nagsisiksikan, wala namang tinutukan ng baril sa ulo para isiksik nila sarili nila sa big cities, they went there on their own di ba.
Yesterday at 10:49am ·- Floro
Mga kapatid, may mga pull factors kung bakit siksikan tayo sa siyudad!Kailangang madevelop ang ibang lugar para mabawasan ang tao sa mega cities tulad ng Manila at Cebu. Agree ako sa efficient Mass Transport. Yung Countryside Development hinid umuubra kasi binubulsa and CDFs. YUng tulay sa probinsiya imbes na malaki ginagawa ay mga overflow na kayang sirain ng baha. Para magkaroon ng bagong project ulit! Ang decongestion mangyayari lamang kung madevelop ang ibang regions at magkaroon ng economic opportunities sa ibang lugar! Anf irony, puro pulpul na politko at mga sipsip sa pulitiko ang mga naiiwan sa mga probinsya na binoboto naman ng mga nabubuhay sa patronage largesse na galing sa corrupt na systema. Edukasyon ng masa ang kaialngan ngunit di natin magawa. Siguro ang pwede lang ay rebolusyon na kinatatakutan natin!
Yesterday at 11:12am ·
Nonoy Oplas
Madali naman siguro mag rebolusyon doon sa may gusto. Hahawak sila ng baril, magsisigaw sa kalsada, tapos barilin mga sundalo, politiko at pulis, pati mga sibilyan na di naniniwala sa causa nila, pipilitin mag contribute at pag ayaw, siguro babarilin din. Sa HK, Tokyo, Seoul, Bangkok, etc., super-siksikan mga tao, sisiw mga flyovers natin kumpara sa kanila, pero doon, walang nagtatawag ng rebolusyon, bagkus lalong lumalaki at dumadami tao sa mga syudad nila.
Yesterday at 11:15am ·
Arcy Garcia
Noy, dahil nga sa akala nila, andun ang trabaho. pero pag tumagal, nakikita nila na kulang na kulang pala. pero siyempre, sa anyo ng develoipment model ng buong daigdig (na kapitalista), mas ok na sa siyudad kaysa naman sa bukid at probinsiya. kaya nga dapat even development. dapat gobyerno manguna sa pagdevelop sa ibang lugar na hindi pa developed. para hindi tayo magsiksikan dito. hindi dahil ganyan ang Bangkok, Taipei, Suingapore at Malaysia, ganun na rin tayo dapat. naniniwala akong may isang mas matino at mas makataong kaunlarang modelo kaysa sa tinatahak ng mga bagong yumayaman (ngunit hindi ibig sabihin agad ay umuunlad) na mga bansang Asyano. Lalong hindi ang modelo ng US at UK. sa dulo, agrikultura ang dapat pagtuunan ng pansin ng bansang ito upang tugunan ang kahirapan- hindi mas maraming higanteng tulay, fly-overs, skyways, etc; at mga higanteng gusali.
Yesterday at 1:12pm ·
Arcy Garcia tama ka Fkoro. countryside development. kailangang seryosong paunlarin at ituon ang kaunting pera natin sa lalawigan. pagpapaunlad ng agrikultura ang unang assignment ng administrasyong ito. (na sa kasamaang-palad ay hindi niya ginagawa).
Yesterday at 1:13pm ·
Nonoy Oplas
The convenience is larger than inconvenience in people congestion in big cities. For instance, you live in mandaluyong bec your office is in makati, your children's schools are in pasig and QC, etc. Matraffic, true, but it's shorter compared to living in Laguna or Rizal then work in makati. Maski mahihirap, gusto nila sa big cities kasi madaming opportunidad basta masipag ka lang: maging jeepney or taxi driver, waiter, salesladies in malls, etc. No one is forced and coerced to live in big and congested cities, one can always go to the smaller provinces.
Also, if things are still convenient in Metro Manila, then its population will not just be 10-12 million, it will swell to 15 M or more. Congestion and its inconvenience are the "natural" checks by which people will decide, "will I swap my conveniece here in the province with M.Mla's congestions but bigger econ opportunities there?"
Yesterday at 2:59pm ·
- Ado
@ Oplas, sa HK, Bangkok, Taipei, Seoul, KL, Tokyo, Jakarta, Sing, Beijing, etc.. tama ka maganda ang development diyan kasi hindi mga kupal ang namumuno... dito sa atin nangangarap ng kung anu-anu eh wala naman pondo.. Kung sana ang Gobyerno nalang ang nagpagawa ng NLEX, SLEX at Skyaway sana taong bayan ang makikinabang sa 65m na collection diyan araw-araw at pwede pondohan ang guni2 ni Tolentino... Ang TransCo kumikita ng 35B na net income ang gobyerno yearly benenta pa.. ngayon sila Henry Sy ang nakikinabang..
Yesterday at 3:09pm ·
Nonoy Oplas
Ado, sa tutoo lang, madaming pera ang gobyerno. Every year, ang interest payment binabayad nila sa public debt, both foreign and domestic, is about P330 B per year, average for 2010-2012. Klaro na may pera ang gobyerno, pero ang mentalidad, utang pa ng utang total future admins naman ang magbabayad. Dyan pa lang talo na tayo.
Kaya Ars, be careful what you wish for. When you wish for more govt involvement, govt will give you and me more debts, more pork barrel for legislators, more corrupt officials.
Yesterday at 3:15pm ·
- Ado Pag ang pera mo ay pangbayad lang sa utang hindi mo pera yan, pera na galing buwis ni Juan de La Cruz.. marami din pera ang mga GFI natin pero kanino pinapautang? sa mga capilista at mga Politiko na nagpapahirap sa taong bayan at mga manggagawa.. Hindi malinaw ang direction ng ating gobyerno..
Yesterday at 3:31pm ·
Arcy Garcia
Precisely Pareng Nonoy, dahil nga wala nang kabuhayan, wala pang matinong social services at edukasyon, hindi pa convenient. Pero hindi ba dapat gobyerno ang nag-iisip kung paano ikalat ang convenience at ikabubuhay. kapag kapitalista langtulad ni Henry Sy ang hahayaan nating magpasiya- pati Bagiou at maliliit na burol, tatayuan niya ng SM Mall, kahit pa man magkalubug-lubog tayo sa baha. kasi siya, safe sa kanyang palasyo...
15 hours ago ·
Nonoy Oplas
Pero di ba ginagawa ng malalaking kapitalista ngayon tulad nila henry sy, gokongwei, ayala, etc. Nasa davao, cebu, bacolod, iloilo, baguio, pangasinan, CDO, Bulacan, Tarlac etc na ang SM, Robinsons, ayala malls, etc. Yong SM sa Rosales, pangasinan, nalubog ng todo sa baha nong 2009, typhoon pepeng. Pag sila nagkalat ng malls or subdivisions or call center bldgs nila, walang taxes kinukuha sa atin. Pag gobyerno namudmod ng pork barrel sa mga congressmen at manuhol sa mga goernors and mayors, puro tax money natin yon. Eh kung ginastos lang nila yon sa mga personal na bagay at pamumulitika, wala rin.
Meanwhile, not only the mall developers, but also the various franchised companies (jollibee, chowking, mang inasal, starbucks, generics pharmacy, etc. are in many provinces now, not only in big cities but also in small cities and municipaliities. ALL at no cost to us taxpayers. It's really the govt that really wastes than spend wisely our money.
7 hours ago ·
It may sound "heartless" to justify urban congestion where social inequality is more pronounced and more visible. But the point is that people flock on their own to urban centers voluntarily -- poor, middle class, rich, government agencies -- because of various convenience: proximity to better healthcare facilities, educational and cultural institutions, commercial and financial centers, airports and seaports, trains, etc.
It's also a case of people voting by their feet, beyond the ballot and elections. Moving from the provinces or rural areas to big urban centers, and/or moving to other countries, where they think better economic and social opportunities will be more available to them.
Government central planning in business and economic development should be avoided as much as possible. Government should focus on promulgating the rule of law. Go after thieves and carnappers, both private and government. Go after kidnappers, killers and murderers, both private and government. Go after extortionists and land grabbers, both private and government. Go after scammers and violators of transactions and contracts, both private and government.
When people are assured that what they enter into will be transparent and respected up to the future, they will have peace of mind. They can invest in rural agri-business, resorts and tourism centers in far away areas, other business enterprises, knowing that contracts with various people and enterprises will be upheld, knowing that corruption and extortion in government is minimal or zero. Then rural development as advocated even by those who dislike urban congestion will slowly materialize.
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See also:
Inequality 5: Comments to Why Inequality is Good, May 11, 2011
Inequality 6: On Social and Class Dominance, May 13, 2011
Inequality 6: On Social and Class Dominance, May 13, 2011
Inequality 8: On Sustainable Inclusive Growth, June 23, 2011
Inequality 9: CMFR Forum on Inclusive Growth, September 22, 2011
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